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MarkJames
Junior Member

Canada
48 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  2:57:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm integrating my Stargate and Insteon. Until I figger out a direct way for Stargate to talk to insteon I'm using Houselinc as a sort of intermediary. Using Houselinc events I'm using the stargate to control insteon. This method, frankly, sucks because there is a huge lag time (in the order of 5 seconds or more sometimes) between an x-10 command and an insteon response. But for now I'll live with that.

The confusing thing for me is the Houselinc software - and the documentation (or rather lack thereof). I'm trying to accomplish something very simple. Use one of the scene buttons on a keypadlinc in my kitchen so that when pressed it turns off all the other main floor lighting and turns on the light over the table, dimming it to 60%. I've linked these all to the scene button but this is where it gets confusing. When you make something a responder you're asked what it should do - on, off, ramprate, level, etc. But does it do that in response to an On or an Off, or does it matter? How does the 'kind' of scene button come into play (on, off, toggle). It seems that I can put whatever values I want into the responder fields and save them but when I come back to it they've all changed!

I've even tried doing this using the scenes in the PLM2412U. I put all the links to the responders in but I can't get some to turn off while others turn on - either the on ones turn on or the off ones turn off - but not both. What use is a scene if you can't have some turn on and some turn off?

Am I totally missing the technique here? I seem to be suffering from a total lack of understanding of how these things interact with one another. The lack of documentation is no help - and frankly the tech support from Smarthome wasn't much use either. I called today and asked how I could link a scene in the 2412 to a keypress which the level 2 tech told me could be done only to have him go find out that it can't be done and that it must be done through an event!


BLH
Advanced Member

4359 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  3:22:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you looked at the HouseLinc2 data in the wiki?

http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title=HouseLinc_2_-_INSTEON_Desktop_Software_User%27s_Guide
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MarkJames
Junior Member

Canada
48 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  3:26:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
lol - yes I've looked at the wiki. It doesn't really have much to offer. It's where I got the idea of using the 2412 to store my scenes. It takes you as far as telling you to put all your devices in and what you want them to do but then leaves you with all the glaring questions I asked in my previous post.
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LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  3:50:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Insteon On command issued by the controller device uses the bright level and ramp rate set in the Responder link record to determine what the responder device should do. With the proper values some devices can be turned On and some can be turned Off with the On command. Setting a bright level to 00 (LD1=00) will cause the responder device to turn Off when receiving an On command. Setting a bright level to something other than 00 (max value decimal 255) causes the device to be set to that bright level (assuming it is a dimmer device capable of other than full On or full Off such as the relay devices). An Off command turns the responder Off.

The KPL button operates in one of three modes; toggle mode (first press issues an On command, next press issues an Off command); non-toggle On mode (every press issues an On command); non-toggle Off mode (every press issues an Off command).

Post back anything I have missed.

Lee G

Edited by - LeeG on 11/10/2009 3:52:02 PM
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8282 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  3:52:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Single click on the PLM in the device pane to expand it. Pick a group number in the PLM. Double click on the group to select it in the device pane, then click on the Links tab.

Next, click and drag the devices that you want in the scene to the Responders section of the PLM group.

Click on the "Edit" button on the far right of each Responder record, then choose the level and ramp rate for that device in that scene, then click "Save"

Then, click the Events tab, add a new event, click and drag the trigger device button to the Triggers section and the PLM group to the Actions tab. You can click on the Edit button on the Trigger to change which button and what kind of press triggers the scene--an on, an off, a bright, a dim, or a fast on or fast off.

Volunteer Moderator & Home Automation Enthusiast
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MarkJames
Junior Member

Canada
48 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  4:39:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LeeG wrote...
With the proper values some devices can be turned On and some can be turned Off with the On command
_________________

I think that might be what I was looking for. It seemed counterintuitive that a kpl scene ON keypress could cause a scene member to turn off, though that's EXACTLY what I want it to do. So.. let me just clarify a couple of things.

This is what I've been doing... with mixed results. Let's say I have a button marked 'scene' that's one of the buttons on a keypadlinc. I drag a bunch of other insteon controlled devices into the responder area of that button.

Then I go to each responder and edit their actions - some to on, some to off. Some of these are switchlinc relays, some are the LEDs on other keypadlincs (so as to maintain them in sync), some of them are lights controlled by insteon dimmers. My intent is that when I press the button that says 'scene', I turn, say, the light on for the table, the LED's to match on the appropriate controllers, the lights off in the hall, the LED's on those controllers to match, and dim some other lights. So I edit all the responders to match what I want to see.

Then I update the database, sync, etc. and try it. Doesn't work. Well - partially works. Worse - when I go back, numerous actions that I meticulously set and saved are now reversed - as if it is has toggled like the button that pressed it.

I'll try doing it as Tfitzpatri8 suggested - using an event - but I shudder to do so as I find events take far too long to get processed.
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LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  5:17:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Insteon hardware works as described and has for years. When a device is directed to turn ON to a bright level of nothing, the device turns OFF. Now even some of the newer hardware has the capability of locking in a current OFF state with the Set button and if a link is established with the Set button the device will respond by turning OFF rather than turning full ON as it is normally treated with Set button links. Once you figure out why HouseLinc either does not write the responder link data as needed or changes it for some reason the hardware will respond as described.

I donít use HouseLinc for much so I am a little blind here but if you are establishing Scenes where the PLM is the Controller, the Scene (Group) number is critical as the responder link data is stored in the responder device using the Scene (Group) number. Donít know if HouseLinc would allow a conflict here but if multiple Scenes can be established using the same Scene (Group) number one scene definition could be wiping out another scenes responder data. Insteon responder hardware could not detect that conflict. It is up to HouseLinc or the user defining the scene to avoid using the same scene (Group) number for different scenes.

Lee G
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MarkJames
Junior Member

Canada
48 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  5:31:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Lee,
So long as I know that what I want to do CAN be done then I can play till I get it

What software do you use for setting up your scenes?
I find Houselinc a bit too clunky and would be keen to try something different

Mark
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LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2223 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  5:48:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use PowerHome2. Has much more capability regarding triggers, timed events, macros than HouseLinc2 which I also have but use very little. PowerHome2 has a full function free 30 day trial if you are thinking about something else. There is a programmer orientation to the macros, triggers, etc but most folks have been able to implement PH stuff without too much trouble. The PH forum has a good set of followers who provide useful information and the forum posts themselves can provide good examples, albeit time consuming to pull the information out. The link management is done through a GUI interface so no programming orientation there. There is a learning curve as with most things. Not everything is intuitive without an understanding of Insteon to work from.

Lee G
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MarkJames
Junior Member

Canada
48 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2009 :  5:53:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks,

I'll look at Powerhome2. I have no fear of programming - I've been programming for 27 years in every language from Assembler thru Basic, Fortran, Pascal, C, C++, and VB. I think you hit the nail on the head about requiring a good insteon understanding. I've got to put some effort into finding a good primer on it.

I tried the scene business again using the PLM scenes. I set it all up using set level rather than on/off. It didn't do what I wanted and when I came back to it in HL2 the levels I'd set and saved had all changed from offs or set level to 0 back to on's. This is frustrating beyond words. I don't get why I set up a scene, save it, and then it changes. I haven't any scenes set up besides this one so I know I'm not overwriting it.

I'm considering the ezserve controller as I'm trying to integrate the insteon with my stargate. I'll look at powerhome2 while I'm waiting to see what my options for stargate integration are.

Thanks for all your help!

Mark
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