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frankjw
Senior Member

USA
235 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2013 :  3:33:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got my 2413S with the ISY 99i bundle 3 years ago and it went bad 6 months ago. I hope this one won't need replacing in another 2 years. Has anyone else had to replace their PLM's so soon? I thought I was done with this Smarthome made in China quality control crap a long time ago.

Edited by - frankjw on 03/16/2013 3:35:40 PM

oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2361 Posts

Posted - 03/16/2013 :  7:37:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
M first went bad after two years. Working on second.
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
1223 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  08:16:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by frankjw

I got my 2413S with the ISY 99i bundle 3 years ago and it went bad 6 months ago. I hope this one won't need replacing in another 2 years. Has anyone else had to replace their PLM's so soon? I thought I was done with this Smarthome made in China quality control crap a long time ago.



The one I purchased from SmartHome gave up the ghost aprox 14 - 15 months later, it was clear it was a used item returned by a customer.

The PLM 2413S was very warm to the touch. The new one is cool as a cucumber plugged in 24/7/365.

Clearly they have some on going quality issues with these items. There was also a short period where the firmware was bad and caused untold problems.

I am sitting on the fence for another 6-12 months before I purchase my back up unit. I want to make sure all of the crappy one's are out of the system or at least re-flashed.
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ELA
Senior Member

315 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  08:20:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit ELA's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have looked inside quite a few of the Insteon products either directly or via the FCC website and many appear very scary looking in terms of quality:

http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10635&SearchTerms=reliability

Insteon Test Data ->: http://www.elavenue.com/insteon_test_data.html
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BLH
Advanced Member

4353 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  08:59:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My two 2413S V1.0 0922 PLMs have rework on the main PCB. In the power supply area. Not showing in the FCC Internal Photos of the main PCB.
C7 10uf/25V cap is not mounted flush to the PCB and is bent horizontally near to the orange cap close to its silk screened position.
In the C7 + pad there is also a small coil and on the other end of the coil is a added electrolytic caps + side.
The added caps - side goes back to the C7 - pad.
The junction of the added caps + and coil has a Blue wire wrap type wire connected somewhere on the solder side of the PCB.

So it looks like some type of LC type assembly is connected across C7 and the back of the PCB.

I have not looked into my 2413S HW 1.5 to see what maybe different.

Edited by - BLH on 03/17/2013 09:47:22 AM
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
1223 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  09:42:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ELA

I have looked inside quite a few of the Insteon products either directly or via the FCC website and many appear very scary looking in terms of quality:

http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10635&SearchTerms=reliability




That was a great thread! Thanks for bringing it back up. There was lots of information and discussion on the topic at hand.

Teken . . .
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ELA
Senior Member

315 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  10:48:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit ELA's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

My two 2413S V1.0 0922 PLMs have rework on the main PCB. In the power supply area. Not showing in the FCC Internal Photos of the main PCB.

I have not looked into my 2413S HW 1.5 to see what maybe different.



Hi Brian,
That is an old one. I have been through about 6 PLMs over the years.
I had an old V1.0 as my very first ISY PLM that failed long ago.
I had a few R1.4, 1.5, 1.6 and now 1.7 PLMs. Three of those were used to build custom testers.

I have traced a partial schematic of a Rev 1.7 PLM. The LC you speak of is now an finished part of the PCA.
A final output filter to further reduce the switching power supply ripple I imagine.
Some of the solder joints on these units is very scary.




Insteon Test Data ->: http://www.elavenue.com/insteon_test_data.html
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BLH
Advanced Member

4353 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2013 :  10:58:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I opened my 1.5. The LC parts look like they are part of a later PCB layout.
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jwagner010
Junior Member

55 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2013 :  5:55:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 2412 failed in March and I replaced it with a 2413S (V1.B -1252) which has now died within 60 days. After unplugging it for 5 minutes it comes back to life only to die a few hours after again, appears the unit is overheating and shutting down. Is there a design flaw (cheap components) in the 2413S? Are there later models that work more reliably?
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EVIL Teken
Advanced Member

Canada
1223 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2013 :  6:33:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jwagner010

My 2412 failed in March and I replaced it with a 2413S (V1.B -1252) which has now died within 60 days. After unplugging it for 5 minutes it comes back to life only to die a few hours after again, appears the unit is overheating and shutting down. Is there a design flaw (cheap components) in the 2413S? Are there later models that work more reliably?



Since I last posted in this thread. I literally just purchased and received my brand new back up 2413S PLM. The production sticker is V1.B 1305 almost the same as yours!

Now I am not sure what to do with this thing? Should I plug it in and use it and see? Or let it sit in the spare drawer until I need it and let the 2 year warranty run??

I dunno . . .

Teken . . .
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jwagner010
Junior Member

55 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  04:45:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Since I last posted in this thread. I literally just purchased and received my brand new back up 2413S PLM. The production sticker is V1.B 1305 almost the same as yours!

Now I am not sure what to do with this thing? Should I plug it in and use it and see? Or let it sit in the spare drawer until I need it and let the 2 year warranty run??

I dunno . . .

Teken . . .



Personally I would return it. Not only does my unit periodically die before cooling and coming back to life, but a couple of times when it died it turned on every light in the house. A real safety issue in my mind if someone isn't home.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  11:26:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EVIL Teken
Since I last posted in this thread. I literally just purchased and received my brand new back up 2413S PLM. The production sticker is V1.B 1305 almost the same as yours!

Now I am not sure what to do with this thing? Should I plug it in and use it and see? Or let it sit in the spare drawer until I need it and let the 2 year warranty run??

I dunno . . .

Teken . . .


Put it with your insurance policy. It'd be best if you never needed either, but you'll be glad it's there if the circumstance arises.

Not only do I backup my backups, I have a backup PC

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BriG
Junior Member

USA
47 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2013 :  08:06:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One more PLM failure data point: less-than-one-month-old 2413S just died. No adverse electrical events that I am aware of. The sticker says 2413S; V1.B; 1305.
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marcoscc
Starting Member

Brazil
6 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  1:55:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reading the forum posts, I can see that I'm not the only one with problems with the PLMs 2413s. This is the fourth unit I got in trouble in 15 months. Apparently this is a chronic problem of product quality. The one that I have defective at this time is a V1.6 1202 and I am requesting the RMA for exchange because of it is still in warranty period. All the time I have the same problem (LED Off) and of course unit not operating, if I remove the unit from the outlet for 1 hour and back to connect it works for a few hours and then stop to work. This was the same problem that happened with all the other units I've exchanged previously. So, apparently this is a power supply problem and I am not sure if the unit that I will receive in exchange will fail again in the future with the same problem. Can someone comment about this issue ? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards Marcos Silva - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Marcos Silva
Rio de Janeiro
Brasil
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Vanhalo
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  09:59:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My 2413S V.1.5 1122 just failed yesterday. Purchased directly from Smarthome on August of 2011. They are sending an email so I can RMA it. I bought a replacement from Amazon yesterday. It arrived this morning with V1.B 1317. It also looked like it had been returned. I will sell the other one on EBay since the clock will start on the warranty after I receive it. I probably would have kept it as a spare had I not read this post. As long as they keep replacing them. Maybe they should increase the warranty for a few more years. We have a lot of power surges and I am wondering if it is unavoidable since the PLM has to be plugged in outside of a surge protector. As I understand it the procedure to replace the PLM is as simple as restoring the ISY99 to the new PLM.

Edited by - Vanhalo on 07/13/2013 10:00:51 AM
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LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2222 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  10:21:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Insure you have a current ISY backup file. Remove power from ISY and old PLM. Connect new PLM. Plug in new PLM, then plug in the ISY power supply. Do a Restore Modem (PLM) to rebuild the new PLM and change all the devices to point to the new PLM. This step will take some time. Do not put the battery powered RF devices into linking mode. When the Restore Modem (PLM) is complete put each of the battery powered RF devices into linking mode but only one at a time. Right click the primary node of the device and select Write Updates to Device. Repeat for each battery powered RF only device. Do not put more the one RF device into linking mode as they will cancel each other.

DO NOT issue Delete Modem (PLM) under any circumstances.

Lee G
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ELA
Senior Member

315 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  11:48:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit ELA's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vanhalo

We have a lot of power surges and I am wondering if it is unavoidable since the PLM has to be plugged in outside of a surge protector.



I go to the extra trouble of being sure there is a "Surge only protector" on the circuit where I plug my PLM in.
A surge protector with MOVs only is totally acceptable and also desirable.

Just make sure it does not have an EMI filter with a 0.1uf cap. An EMI filter with a 0.01uf cap only is ok.

Of course difficult for the average person to know what type of cap is installed.
In that case just avoid one with an EMI filter.
Surge only with MOVs is good.

Insteon Test Data ->: http://www.elavenue.com/insteon_test_data.html
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Vanhalo
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  07:53:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeG

Insure you have a current ISY backup file. Remove power from ISY and old PLM. Connect new PLM. Plug in new PLM, then plug in the ISY power supply. Do a Restore Modem (PLM) to rebuild the new PLM and change all the devices to point to the new PLM. This step will take some time. Do not put the battery powered RF devices into linking mode. When the Restore Modem (PLM) is complete put each of the battery powered RF devices into linking mode but only one at a time. Right click the primary node of the device and select Write Updates to Device. Repeat for each battery powered RF only device. Do not put more the one RF device into linking mode as they will cancel each other.

DO NOT issue Delete Modem (PLM) under any circumstances.




Per Insteon Support - I just restored the new PLM modem through the ISY.

I plugged the new PLM in and connected ISY serial connection, put my single motion sensor in program mode (held setup button for 5 seconds) as instructed by the ISY, Ran a Restore PLM to the new device. All programs and the single motion detector seems to be working. What am i missing?

Edited by - Vanhalo on 07/14/2013 07:57:35 AM
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8254 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  08:38:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can find more help with the ISY at the manufacturers's own support site: http://forum.universal-devices.com

Volunteer Moderator & Home Automation Enthusiast
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LeeG
Advanced Member

USA
2222 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  09:13:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Put the Motion Sensor into link mode. Red LED will blink. Right click Motion Sensor - Sensor node, select Write Updates to Device.

What is the problem/symptom?


Lee G

Edited by - LeeG on 07/14/2013 09:14:47 AM
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instaman
Average Member

149 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  09:48:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to derail this subject, but after seeing this topic and others similar appear at the top often, it seems like this is taking a poll of the PLM failure rate.

As the PLM is a very important part of the ISY setup, what I'd like to know is,

"What's the longest PLM running time has anyone owned or is still running?"

Mind you, if you see someone has reported theirs running for two years and yours has run less than that, then please consider that there is no need for you to post as we are looking for the longest running only and posting comparisons would only bog down this forum topic.

With respect to the moderators, Tfitzpatri8, if you feel that this is not the place for this, then please feel free to move it to a separate topic location. I posted here because it seems the PLM gets a bad rep and could deter others from investing in an ISY because of such. Thank you.
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Vanhalo
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  10:01:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeG

Put the Motion Sensor into link mode. Red LED will blink. Right click Motion Sensor - Sensor node, select Write Updates to Device.

What is the problem/symptom?




Sorry I was implying that my sensor worked after the PLM restore. I might add that the Smarthome tech said 1.b was the latest version for the 2413S
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auger66
New Member

28 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  12:47:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm on my original PLM. It's not dual-band and several years old. I'm not sure how many years of continuous operation, but the version is .92. I might add the power supply at my place is extremely stable.
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BLH
Advanced Member

4353 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  03:02:17 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The older 2412S PLM has a completely different power supply in it compared to a 2413S Dual Band PLM.
The 2412S has a power transformer in it and not a switch mode type found in the 2413S.
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IndyMike
Senior Member

348 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  3:10:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by instaman


As the PLM is a very important part of the ISY setup, what I'd like to know is,

"What's the longest PLM running time has anyone owned or is still running?"

Mind you, if you see someone has reported theirs running for two years and yours has run less than that, then please consider that there is no need for you to post as we are looking for the longest running only and posting comparisons would only bog down this forum topic.



I've often wondered about the number of users who had not experienced problems with their PLM's. I happen to be one of them. There is no way to roll up any type of statistical analysis through a forum. Nonetheless, I've wondered whether geographic location plays into failures (location on the grid).

For my part: 0 failures on 5 PLM's and 1 PLC
1) 2814U ICON PLC V1.0 Date Code 0601. Infrequent use
2) 2412S Firmware 0x24 Rev 1.9. Purchased with ISY26 in 2007. Used continuously until traded-in for following 2412S (faster memory processing).
3) 2412S Firmware 0x63 Rev 2,75, Date Code 0748. Device in use since purchase. This is my go to PLM.
4) 2413S Firmware 0x92 V1.0, Date Code 0922. Test PLM - intermittent use.
5) 2413UH Firmware 0x98 V1.5, Date Code 1153. Houselinc PLM that has been in service since early 2012.
6) 2413S Firmware 0x99 V1.6, Date Code 1226. Test PLM connected to my ISY99I.

The above can't be luck, and it is not my doing. I run surge protectors on TV's, PC's, and A/V equipment. None of the PLM's has ever been protected from "possible" line spikes.
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tonysony
Starting Member

8 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  12:31:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i am new and should Probably just keep my mouth shut but I agree with this statement entirely. The failure rate for the modems almost kept me from purchasing any insteon equipment and upgrading my system after I had. I didn't want to invest too much if the modem was going to continue to be a weak link in my system. I am glad someone is discussing this as I have now invested heavily in this brand of automation.

Tony

quote:
Originally posted by instaman

Not to derail this subject, but after seeing this topic and others similar appear at the top often, it seems like this is taking a poll of the PLM failure rate.

As the PLM is a very important part of the ISY setup, what I'd like to know is,

"What's the longest PLM running time has anyone owned or is still running?"

Mind you, if you see someone has reported theirs running for two years and yours has run less than that, then please consider that there is no need for you to post as we are looking for the longest running only and posting comparisons would only bog down this forum topic.

With respect to the moderators, Tfitzpatri8, if you feel that this is not the place for this, then please feel free to move it to a separate topic location. I posted here because it seems the PLM gets a bad rep and could deter others from investing in an ISY because of such. Thank you.

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roadking2003
Junior Member

38 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  2:16:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't seen anyone post with dates, so here goes. My 2413S has been running 24/7 since August, 2011. No failures.
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roadking2003
Junior Member

38 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2013 :  2:58:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dam!!!!!!! I think my 2413s just failed.....after 24 months and 15 days.

I'm getting a message "safe mode - cannot communicate with PLM". Also get a new screen that's titled "ISY finder".

I assume it's the PLM failing and not the ISY. Anyone know for sure before I order a replacement? And is there anything else that I can use other than the 2413s?
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BLH
Advanced Member

4353 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2013 :  3:48:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My thoughts are the 2413S before the ISY controller. You may want to try a different cable between the PLM and the ISY controller. Powering up the 2413S before the ISY controller would be best. As the PLM has a chance to initilize before the ISY controller starts looking for it and then into safe mode if not found.

Is the Set LED on the 2413S On at about its normal brilliance?
If you have any Insteon Traffic maybe from a remotelinc so you can watch the 2413S. Does its LED blink with traffic?

The 2413S PLM is about all you can use. Except the Smarenit EZICOMM. Though they build it on a base 2413X module.
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roadking2003
Junior Member

38 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  5:06:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BLH

My thoughts are the 2413S before the ISY controller. You may want to try a different cable between the PLM and the ISY controller. Powering up the 2413S before the ISY controller would be best. As the PLM has a chance to initilize before the ISY controller starts looking for it and then into safe mode if not found.

Is the Set LED on the 2413S On at about its normal brilliance?
If you have any Insteon Traffic maybe from a remotelinc so you can watch the 2413S. Does its LED blink with traffic?




I replaced the PLM and cable. I powered up the PLM before the ISY. The LED on the PLM is on and steady green. The ISY admin console still brings up the "ISY Finder" screen, then goes into safe mode.

BTW, I had this system working fine for two years.
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roadking2003
Junior Member

38 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  5:07:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW, what is the "ISY Finder" screen for and is this something I should respond to?
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