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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  09:14:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm having trouble linking an ApplianceLinc (AL) with a SmartLinc (SL). I have two ALs and both operate the same way: I plug an AL directly into the pass-thru socket on the SL. There is a lamp on the AL and it can be turned on and off by the AL's Set button. With the lamp on, I click the Add button on the SL's web interface; the LED on the SL begins blinking. I press and hold the Set button on the AL for 3 seconds. The AL's LED flashes rapidly 4 times and then begins flashing slowly. It this time, LEDs on both AL and
SL are flashing. No linking takes place. After about 30 seconds, the AL's LED stops flashing, the RL's flashes for a couple of minutes more. (According to the manual, during linking, the AL's LED is supposed to "flash twice and then turn on solid").
I have, currently operating OK, an AL that I successfully linked with the
SL, but I had to do a "Factory Reset" on the SL to get past the above problem.
I hope that someone can help.

Edited by - howard@chezcaniche.us on 08/25/2012 3:39:40 PM

oberkc
Advanced Member

USA
2361 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  09:25:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is your appliancelinc a dual-band version? How many other dual-band devices (including access points) do you have?
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  1:33:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by howard@chezcaniche.us

I'm having trouble linking an ApplianceLinc (AL) with a RemoteLink 2 (RL). I have two ALs and both operate the same way: I plug an AL directly into the pass-thru socket on the RL. There is a lamp on the AL and it can be turned on and off by the AL's Set button. With the lamp on, I click the Add button on the RL's web interface; the LED on the RL begins blinking.


"RL's web interface?" Do you mean a SmartLinc? The RL itself does not have a web interface and cannot link the RL to anything as both are controllers only.
quote:

I press and hold the Set button on the AL for 3 seconds. The AL's LED flashes rapidly 4 times and then begins flashing slowly. It this time, LEDs on both AL and RL are flashing. No linking takes place. After about 30 seconds, the AL's LED stops flashing, the RL's flashes for a couple of minutes more. (According to the manual, during linking, the AL's LED is supposed to "flash twice and then turn on solid").


The RL should be put into linking mode by using its set button. The RL LED will begin blinking green. Then press the set button on the AL until the blinking stops. Or are you using HouseLinc? If so, is the PLM dual-band? Do you have any other dual-band devices installed?

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  3:43:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by howard@chezcaniche.us

I'm having trouble linking an ApplianceLinc (AL) with a RemoteLink 2 (RL). I have two ALs and both operate the same way: I plug an AL directly into the pass-thru socket on the RL. There is a lamp on the AL and it can be turned on and off by the AL's Set button. With the lamp on, I click the Add button on the RL's web interface; the LED on the RL begins blinking.


"RL's web interface?" Do you mean a SmartLinc? The RL itself does not have a web interface and cannot link the RL to anything as both are controllers only.
quote:

I press and hold the Set button on the AL for 3 seconds. The AL's LED flashes rapidly 4 times and then begins flashing slowly. It this time, LEDs on both AL and RL are flashing. No linking takes place. After about 30 seconds, the AL's LED stops flashing, the RL's flashes for a couple of minutes more. (According to the manual, during linking, the AL's LED is supposed to "flash twice and then turn on solid").


The RL should be put into linking mode by using its set button. The RL LED will begin blinking green. Then press the set button on the AL until the blinking stops. Or are you using HouseLinc? If so, is the PLM dual-band? Do you have any other dual-band devices installed?



Sorry, Stu. I meant SmartLinc, the 2412N, (getting my Lincs mixed up!). I edited my post to reflect this.
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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  3:45:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oberkc

Is your appliancelinc a dual-band version? How many other dual-band devices (including access points) do you have?


It is not dual-band. I have a dual-band LampLinc which is running OK.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  4:14:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The LampLinc is one dual-band devices. You should install two dual-band devices. Here's why:

Electricity is supplied to residences from a transformer with a center tap. If you have overhead lines, you can see those transformers. They are big, usually gray, container looking objects. The powerline coming into your house usually consists of two black wires and one bare stranded one. The bare wire is the neutral.

This is called a 3-wire or split, single-phase electric supply providing 220/240 volts. The center tap is the neutral giving 110/120 volts between the neutral and each leg of the power line. Half of your 110/120 volt circuits are on one leg and half on the other.

If an Insteon device is on one leg and another Insteon device is on the other leg, the signal between them must travel to the distribution transformer and back. It often does not make it depending on distance and other powerline conditions. Line bridging devices (phase-couplers) alleviate the problem by coupling most of the Insteon signal to the other leg before it leaves the residence. A minimum of two are required--unless you use a single wire-in device at the panel.

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2012 :  08:17:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

The LampLinc is one dual-band devices. You should install two dual-band devices. Here's why:

Electricity is supplied to residences from a transformer with a center tap. If you have overhead lines, you can see those transformers. They are big, usually gray, container looking objects. The powerline coming into your house usually consists of two black wires and one bare stranded one. The bare wire is the neutral.

This is called a 3-wire or split, single-phase electric supply providing 220/240 volts. The center tap is the neutral giving 110/120 volts between the neutral and each leg of the power line. Half of your 110/120 volt circuits are on one leg and half on the other.

If an Insteon device is on one leg and another Insteon device is on the other leg, the signal between them must travel to the distribution transformer and back. It often does not make it depending on distance and other powerline conditions. Line bridging devices (phase-couplers) alleviate the problem by coupling most of the Insteon signal to the other leg before it leaves the residence. A minimum of two are required--unless you use a single wire-in device at the panel.


Hi Stu,
I understand the need for line bridging, but, my problem is not stemming from that: the ApplianceLinc is plugged in to the SmartLinc, therefore on the same leg. I have two devices, a LampLinc and another ApplianceLinc, working just fine. I simply need to find out how to link the AL to the SL without doing a factory reset on the SL.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2012 :  12:51:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Are you adding the AL when it's in the On state (lamp lit)? If not, the SL may not be able to turn it on. BTW, you can do a Connection Reset without losing anything. It's different from a Factory Reset.

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Edited by - stusviews on 08/26/2012 12:54:31 PM
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2012 :  12:58:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How old is this SmartLinc? If it is more than 3 months old, have you updated it to the I2CS .bin file?

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  07:57:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

Are you adding the AL when it's in the On state (lamp lit)? If not, the SL may not be able to turn it on. BTW, you can do a Connection Reset without losing anything. It's different from a Factory Reset.


Hi Stu, sorry for the delayed response; I was on a short camping trip in our local mountains. I am indeed adding the AL when the load is on. Turning the load on or off is not the problem. I can't get the AL to link with the SL without doing a Factory Reset (a Connection Reset won't do it). I'd like to hear from some one that actually has an SL and has linked to other Insteon products to see how they did it.
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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  08:02:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

How old is this SmartLinc? If it is more than 3 months old, have you updated it to the I2CS .bin file?


Hi T, I purchased the SmartLinc on July 10, but don't really know how old it is. How do I find out if I need to update the I2CS.bin file? And where do I find it?
Thanks.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  08:07:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you purchased it new from Smarthome it would have shipped with the current .bin file loaded, but if you purchased it used from eBay it could be r.1 hardware or an r.2 with older software. Click the wrench icon and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Below the button that reads 'download new application version' I would expect it to show 'Version: iPhone 2.3 YF'. Is that what you see?

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  11:22:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

If you purchased it new from Smarthome it would have shipped with the current .bin file loaded, but if you purchased it used from eBay it could be r.1 hardware or an r.2 with older software. Click the wrench icon and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Below the button that reads 'download new application version' I would expect it to show 'Version: iPhone 2.3 YF'. Is that what you see?


It does indeed show "iPhone 2.3 YF". Do you have any ideas why the SmartLinc won't link with a RemoteLinc when the RL is plugged directly into the SL's pass-through socket. I have successfully set up another AL and a RemoteLinc 2, but, only if I do the "Factory Reset" which wipes out all the programming, etc.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  11:26:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now I'm confused--how are you managing to plug a battery-operated RemoteLinc into a 120 volt outlet? Check the label on the device you are plugging in, what's the device name and model number shown?

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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  11:46:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by howard@chezcaniche.us
I can't get the AL to link with the SL without doing a Factory Reset (a Connection Reset won't do it). I'd like to hear from some one that actually has an SL and has linked to other Insteon products to see how they did it.


Turn on the device you want to add. Select Add device from the SmartLinc. Within four minutes. Hold the set button on the device you want to add, usually for three or more seconds. The SmartLinc page will indicate that a device has been added. A laptop or other portable device will make it easier. I've added dozens of devices using that method.

Or use HouseLinc to do the walking and pushing.

Tom, read the 4th post down. It's not you

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  12:19:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

quote:
Originally posted by howard@chezcaniche.us
I can't get the AL to link with the SL without doing a Factory Reset (a Connection Reset won't do it). I'd like to hear from some one that actually has an SL and has linked to other Insteon products to see how they did it.


Turn on the device you want to add. Select Add device from the SmartLinc. Within four minutes. Hold the set button on the device you want to add, usually for three or more seconds. The SmartLinc page will indicate that a device has been added. A laptop or other portable device will make it easier. I've added dozens of devices using that method.

Or use HouseLinc to do the walking and pushing.

Tom, read the 4th post down. It's not you


Stu,
We're having a failure to communicate:
1) Turn on device you want to add (done)
2) Select Add device from SmartLinc (done)
3) Within four minutes. Hold the set button on the device you want to add (done)
4)Hold the set button on the device you want to add, usually for three or more seconds (done)
5) The SmartLinc page will indicate that a device has been added. (NOPE!, doesn't happen!) The SL's and the AL's LEDs just go on flashing, the SL's for about four minutes, the AL's for about 30 seconds. The procedure you written will work if I do a Factory Reset on the SL, at least it did on the previous AL that is currently working OK. The problem is that I don't want to do a factory reset every time!
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  12:55:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We are communicating. We have established that we are not only on the same page, but same word

You should not be required to do a factory reset to add a device. If the AP is plugged into the SL pass-through outlet and a link cannot be established, then there are only three possibilities, the AP is defective, the SL is defective, or the circuit the SL is plugged into is noisy.

Here's a couple of thing you can try:
Using a long extension cord, try powering the SL from a different part of the house such as the garage.
Plug the dual-band LampLinc into the AP pass-through outlet and link the LampLinc as a controller of the AP. Use the outlet that the Lamplinc currently uses.




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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2012 :  1:13:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
(Don't forget the fourth possible cause: The device won't link if it is an x10-only ApplianceLinc, devices produced by Smarthome prior to the invention of Insteon.)

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howard@chezcaniche.us
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  11:13:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

We are communicating. We have established that we are not only on the same page, but same word

You should not be required to do a factory reset to add a device. If the AP is plugged into the SL pass-through outlet and a link cannot be established, then there are only three possibilities, the AP is defective, the SL is defective, or the circuit the SL is plugged into is noisy.

Here's a couple of thing you can try:
Using a long extension cord, try powering the SL from a different part of the house such as the garage.
Plug the dual-band LampLinc into the AP pass-through outlet and link the LampLinc as a controller of the AP. Use the outlet that the Lamplinc currently uses.






Hi Stu, I think I got the problems solved: I got a new version of the SL and everything works great, even, and especially, the X10 units I thought I would have to replace. Thanks for your help.
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DualBandAid
New Member

15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  11:43:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
5) The SmartLinc page will indicate that a device has been added. (NOPE!, doesn't happen!) The SL's and the AL's LEDs just go on flashing, the SL's for about four minutes, the AL's for about 30 seconds. The procedure you written will work if I do a Factory Reset on the SL, at least it did on the previous AL that is currently working OK. The problem is that I don't want to do a factory reset every time!


Yep, that's exactly what happens to me. I need do a factory reset to get the ApplianceLinc to go into linking mode.

quote:
Hi Stu, I think I got the problems solved: I got a new version of the SL and everything works great, even, and especially, the X10 units I thought I would have to replace. Thanks for your help.



I don't use a SmartLinc, I use an ISY994i controller with a Dual-Band PLM -- so I'm not sure if your solution will apply to me. Anyone have any ideas?

Also, shouldn't an ApplianceLinc go into linking mode regardless of what else you have on the system? In other words, if I brought an AL into a brand new house with no Insteon products at all, shouldn't holding down the button for 3 seconds put it into linking mode? Or does it require the receipt of some signal from a controller to go into linking mode?
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  12:20:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualBandAid

Also, shouldn't an ApplianceLinc go into linking mode regardless of what else you have on the system?

To link Insteon devices, the scene controller has to start broadcasting first. The ApplianceLinc cannot control a scene, it can only respond to another controller. You have to put a controller in linking mode, then turn on the ApplianceLinc, then hold down the AL's Set button for 4-5 seconds.

If you are using an ISY, all device programming should be done through the ISY rather than with the Set button. See the ISY manual and forum for info about best practices on an ISY.

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DualBandAid
New Member

15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  12:27:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
To link Insteon devices, the scene controller has to start broadcasting first.


Yeah, I was kinda gathering that. Thanks for confirming. :)

quote:
If you are using an ISY, all device programming should be done through the ISY rather than with the Set button. See the ISY manual and forum for info about best practices on an ISY.


I do understand that. And though I'm very, very afraid to write this next line considering how many posts you have... :) ...in order to get the ISY to recognize the device in the first place, it must still be put into linking mode -- which is done through the set button.

In fact, the ISY itself, once you start it's linking function even tells you: "Step #1: Press and hold the set button on your INSTEON devices for 3-5 seconds."

So the set button still has it's place. I do get, after that, all programming must be done with the set button.

So since the controller (be it a SL or an ISY) has to broadcast first, perhaps the problem is in my ISY. Guess I should post over there.... :)
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  12:42:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To add a device to the ISY, you don't use the ISY's PLM set button. You start linking by choosing an option in the Administrative Console, then hold the set button on the device you want to add. That's the only time you use set with an ISY, when you initially add an device to its database. After that, all link management is performed by the ISY, without the set button.

The ApplianceLinc is a single-band, power line device that relies on nearby dual-band devices to provide a signal bridge across the two sides of your split-single phase power system. If you don't have two dual-band devices installed where they can do that, or if there is significant-enough power line interference between this ApplianceLinc and the nearest d-b unit, the AL might not be able to hear the ISY's linking broadcast.

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DualBandAid
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15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  2:22:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I do understand that. And though I'm very, very afraid to write this next line considering how many posts you have... :) ...in order to get the ISY to recognize the device in the first place, it must still be put into linking mode -- which is done through the set button.


Well, I'm not sure necessarily which set button you were initially referring to...but the set button I was referring to above was on the ApplianceLinc (that's what the "it" was meant to refer to). So, to restate more clearly...

In order to get the ISY to recognize the device in the first place, the device must still be put into linking mode -- which is done through the set button on the device.

Maybe "linking mode" isn't the right term -- and that only applies to controllers? Is that the confusion?

quote:
You start linking by choosing an option in the Administrative Console, then hold the set button on the device you want to add. That's the only time you use set with an ISY,


Yes, that is what I am doing. Start linking in the ISY. Then pressing the "set" button on the ApplianceLinc. Except it does not work. Seems I'm having the same communication failure Howard was having. :)

The only way it works is if I factory reset the ApplianceLinc. Then pressing set on the ApplicanceLinc functions as it is supposed to.

I have about 20 dual-band devices, scattered through-out the house, on both AC legs.

It seems to me the fact that a factory reset fixes the problem would rule out interference being an issue -- unless of course, there was some non-factory-setting on the ApplianceLinc that made interference more of a problem. Why else would factory resetting the unit fix this problem?

Or, as I wrote above, there is a bug in the ISY.
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stusviews
Moderator

USA
10826 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  2:45:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit stusviews's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DualBandAid
Yes, that is what I am doing. Start linking in the ISY. Then pressing the "set" button on the ApplianceLinc. Except it does not work. Seems I'm having the same communication failure Howard was having. :)

The only way it works is if I factory reset the ApplianceLinc. Then pressing set on the ApplicanceLinc functions as it is supposed to.


If you're using an ISY, then adding it to the ISY is the one and only one time you should ever use the set button.

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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
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Posted - 03/18/2013 :  2:54:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm still confused by your procedure. You factory-reset the ApplianceLinc, then you added it to the ISY? From that point, you would no longer use the set button. Once the unit is in ISY database, you use the ISY to create and edit links.

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DualBandAid
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15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  3:00:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stusviews

If you're using an ISY, then adding it to the ISY is the one and only one time you should ever use the set button.


Yes, that's correct. I am using an ISY -- and adding the ApplianceLinc is the "one and only" time I ever use the set-button.

Which, as I have said, does not work unless I factory reset the ApplianceLinc first.

It is really as simply as that. I understand the set up process. I am doing it correctly. I am simply saying the set button does not function the way it is supposed to unless I factory reset the ApplianceLinc first. Then everything works fine.

Think about this. If I was doing something wrong - and THAT is why the set button is acting strange and I cannot add my new device to the ISY...a factory reset doesn't change the fact I am doing something wrong. And yet, after the factory reset, I can add the device to the ISY.
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DualBandAid
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Posted - 03/18/2013 :  3:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tfitzpatri8

I'm still confused by your procedure. You factory-reset the ApplianceLinc, then you added it to the ISY? From that point, you would no longer use the set button. Once the unit is in ISY database, you use the ISY to create and edit links.



Yes, that is correct. I factor-reset that ApplianceLinc. Then I add it to the ISY. Then I no longer ever, ever, ever touch the set button.

What I, like the previous poster, is having trouble communicating is that, prior to doing the factory reset, the set button does not work like it is supposed to. I am UNABLE to add the device to the ISY. After the factory reset, I can. It's as simple as that.

The ONLY issue here is: why is a factory reset required to get the ApplianceLinc to link properly? That is the ONLY issue.

:)

Edited by - DualBandAid on 03/18/2013 3:03:53 PM
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DualBandAid
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15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  3:04:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But as Stu already said:

quote:
You should not be required to do a factory reset to add a device.


But I do. So something is wrong somewhere. Something that a factory reset somehow fixes.
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Tfitzpatri8
Administrator

USA
8256 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  3:23:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My concern is that the ISY may be trying to write pending changes while you are still manipulating/resetting the hardware. Once you've added the device to the ISY, if communications aren't a problem then you should be able to use the ISY's Administrative Console to add or remove the device from scenes.

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DualBandAid
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15 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2013 :  3:44:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
My concern is that the ISY may be trying to write pending changes while you are still manipulating/resetting the hardware. Once you've added the device to the ISY....


LOL...okay, I give up. :) I'll try one more time to explain this:

The ISY could NOT be writing any changes because the ISY couldn't even see the ApplianceLinc. Once the ISY was in linking mode, pushing the "set" button on the ApplianceLinc DID NOTHING. Nothing happened. It was as if I never plugged the ApplianceLinc in. And, as a result, the ApplianceLinc was never "registered" (or whatever you call it) with the ISY. Could the ISY be trying to write pending changes to an ApplianceLinc that was never linked to the ISY in the first place? No.

The only way to get the ISY to see the ApplianceLinc in the first place was to factory reset the ApplianceLinc. THEN the ISY could see the ApplianceLinc. Then everything was fine.

The ONLY issue is: why was this factory reset required in the first place? I guess I've gotten some theories here. It just kinda surprises me that one would be required, that's all.

I did not try manual entry. If I encounter this same problem with my next ApplianceLinc, I will try that and see what happens.

Edited by - DualBandAid on 03/18/2013 3:45:32 PM
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