| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BLH |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 04:10:23 AM
Anyone interested in a sneak peak of the new Micro Dimmer, Micro Relay and Micro Shutter Insteon modules.
They are now in the FCC Database.
Grantee SBP
Product Code MM01.
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/ |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| stusviews |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 10:41:40 PM
The solution is to use two Micro Modules, each in 3-way latching mode if you want to retain the existing switches. That logic is already built into the firmware.
In the specific 3-way configuration wiring where line and load are in the same box, then even a single ILL with sense would work with standard electrical 3-way switches. See the diagram from carealtor, previous page. |
| Tfitzpatri8 |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 8:47:06 PM
The Micro Dimmer responds to fast on and fast off the same as other dimmers--turn on 100% or off instantly. I haven't checked the Micro On/Off. I think the InLineLinc Relay with Sense is the only module that has a special use for fast on/off--to enable or disable the Sense line. |
| w5xd@alum.mit.edu |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 7:25:20 PM
Do the Fast On and Fast Off commands sent to Micro Dimmer and/or Micro On/Off behave the way they do on In-LineLinc Relay?
On In-LineLinc relay, those commands cause the device to ignore sense inputs until a later "regular" on/off insteon command (or a loss of 110V on the LINE input).
Thanks,
Wayne |
| w5xd@alum.mit.edu |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 7:10:17 PM
I wonder if a single Micro Dimmer might be able to add remote control capability to an existing conventional 3-way light circuit? What makes me think the answer might be "no" is that the Owners Manual does not have a wiring diagram for the "latching" mode, but with both sense wires used.
It would be easy to rewire an existing 3-way circuit putting the Micro Dimmer in the final switch junction box, repurpose the existing black wire as LINE, and the existing traveler to sense #1, and, finally, inside the final switch junction box, use the second switch to control sense #2. Now the Micro Dimmer has LINE/NEUTRAL and LOAD and two Senses, each of which toggles when either of the wall switches is thrown.
But the problem is that the documentation doesn't mention this possibility. The Micro Dimmer firmware would need to have a mode that means "toggle the output if either sense toggles". Not an unreasonable firmware behavior, but also not in the documentation. Has anyone tried this?
I see the earlier posting with a circuit that clearly would work, but requires the existing two traveler wires plus a LINE conductor that my house simply does not have. I am looking for a solution that works with the number of conductors already in the walls.
It sure looks like a way to convert a conventional 3-way circuit as less than half the price and with "normal" wall switches rather than the momentary switches in SwitchLincs.
Thanks,
Wayne |
| stusviews |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 12:55:10 PM
Except for the lower load capacity, a 2443-222 is equivalent to the In-LineLinc with sense. And it is described as dual-band. |
| icerabbit |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 07:56:32 AM
Quick question.
Is the Micro Module 2443-222 functionally equivalent to the 2457SDB In-LineLinc?
Ignoring the 15-20Amp capacity, as I'd use them as on/off controllers for landscape / general outdoor lighting & outdoor outlets <15 AMP.
It doesn't title or list dual-band but has 150ft range. So?
I still have a bundle of 2457SDB s unopened to continue with the landscape stuff, but if these are equivalent, they might make the installation easier and allow use of smaller boxes. |
| stusviews |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 11:11:28 PM
That specific wiring won't work with only one Insteon device. Four Insteon devices are required.
This may not apply if there are additional wires in the ceiling box or any of the switch boxes except the leftmost. |
| kevman |
Posted - 03/10/2013 : 8:02:55 PM
Could someone explain to me how carealtor's diagram would work in a 4 way circuit like this ?
 |
| stusviews |
Posted - 01/12/2013 : 4:29:47 PM
It doesn't matter which box it's in if it's wired according to the diagram. The wiring matters, not the location. |
| carealtor |
Posted - 01/12/2013 : 3:30:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoBill
quote:
Originally posted by carealtor
Why wouldn't this work?
It depends on how the power and load are routed.
You would have to have a hot wire from the breaker in the same box the has the wires to the load for this to work.
In the many cases you do not have the hot and the load in the same box to connect to the micro device.
Case #1, Power enters switch box #1 and the load is connected to switch box #2: The first switch box has the hot and neutral from the breaker and sends the neutral and two travelers to the next switch box. The second box takes these three signals and has a load and neutral feeding the fixture.
Case #2, Power and load are feed from switch box #1. This one would work, but requires a switched signal (hot) on a white wire.
Case #3, Power enters at the load box and then connects to the switches. This also requires a switched signal on a white wire.
There are more cases with multiple load location, but the only case that would work is the one like case #2.
Your Case #3 scenario would work if the micro switch was installed in the "load box" instead of at a switch. |
| stusviews |
Posted - 01/11/2013 : 11:19:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by carealtor
Why wouldn't this work?
Nice  It'd work with any multi-way configuration and only one Micro Module is needed. (see diagram on previous page) |
| EVIL Teken |
Posted - 01/11/2013 : 08:44:38 AM
For what ever reason the first time I searched for the relay on off module. It only returned the 2444-222 on /off motor control. This device has a 8 amp resistive load / 2.5 amp motor.
Now, thats all cleared up! I can continue on my project and retrofit a few outlets where both receptacle can be controlled!
Teken . . . |
| FriscoBill |
Posted - 01/11/2013 : 05:58:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by carealtor
Why wouldn't this work?
It depends on how the power and load are routed.
You would have to have a hot wire from the breaker in the same box the has the wires to the load for this to work.
In the many cases you do not have the hot and the load in the same box to connect to the micro device.
Case #1, Power enters switch box #1 and the load is connected to switch box #2: The first switch box has the hot and neutral from the breaker and sends the neutral and two travelers to the next switch box. The second box takes these three signals and has a load and neutral feeding the fixture.
Case #2, Power and load are feed from switch box #1. This one would work, but requires a switched signal (hot) on a white wire.
Case #3, Power enters at the load box and then connects to the switches. This also requires a switched signal on a white wire.
There are more cases with multiple load location, but the only case that would work is the one like case #2. |
| carealtor |
Posted - 01/10/2013 : 9:53:55 PM
Why wouldn't this work?
 |
| stusviews |
Posted - 01/10/2013 : 7:43:17 PM
Yes. If the other switches are not bypassed (i.e., made useless), they will supply or cut off power - depending on their position - to the micro module which controls the load. No power, no control.
As with any Insteon multi-way setup, only one module actually controls the load. The others are a controller of and responder to the 'primary' module.
Edit: purchase is not required, installation is  |
| black88mx6 |
Posted - 01/10/2013 : 6:51:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absolootbs
quote:
Originally posted by SetMonkey13
This this mean that a switch could read off by the light is actually on?
this is true, although i don't see that it should be an issue as it's no different than what occurs in any conventional 3-way/4-way switch setup: one (or more) switches will be in the correct state while one (or more) switches will be in the incorrect state. and thanks to the micro module's "3-way toggle mode", you can change the state of the light by toggling the switch to its other state, regardless of it's initial state, just like with a conventional multi-way setup.
from the micro module owners manual:
"Because Micro module comes programmed for latching switches, 3-way toggle mode is enabled by default. Normally, a latching switch reads the switch’s up position as on and down position as off. For example, if you turn Micro module on from the latching switch and off from another controller, the switch is still in the up (on) position; turning Micro module back on from the switch would require you to tap the switch down, then up again.
The 3-way toggle mode overrides this sense feature, so in that same scenario—turning Micro module on at the switch and off from another controller, so switch is in up (on) position—you could then turn Micro module on at the switch by tapping it down."
Will adding micro modules to existing 2, 3 or 4 ways switches still require purchase of more than one micro module?
|
| jdale |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 7:25:56 PM
The specs indicate 15 amps for the Micro On/Off Module. Or, for that same module, 2000W in bulbs or 700W inductive load.
However the Micro Dimmer has a max of 100W, which is fairly limiting. And we know that, in general, you can't use the full rating worth of LED bulbs because of the inrush current.
If you install it in outlets you should be using the Micro On/Off though, not the Dimmer. |
| stusviews |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 5:28:32 PM
The specs indicate 15 amps. That's the norm. BTW, if it cuts power to the line, then it controls the load. |
| EVIL Teken |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 5:13:53 PM
I was planning to install this in my outlets. But the current rating is well below what is the norm? Or does this device simply cut the power to the line?
Therefor the micro device doesn't actually control the load?
Teken . . . |
| carealtor |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 12:03:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absolootbs
quote:
Originally posted by SetMonkey13
This this mean that a switch could read off by the light is actually on?
this is true, although i don't see that it should be an issue as it's no different than what occurs in any conventional 3-way/4-way switch setup: one (or more) switches will be in the correct state while one (or more) switches will be in the incorrect state. and thanks to the micro module's "3-way toggle mode", you can change the state of the light by toggling the switch to its other state, regardless of it's initial state, just like with a conventional multi-way setup.
from the micro module owners manual:
"Because Micro module comes programmed for latching switches, 3-way toggle mode is enabled by default. Normally, a latching switch reads the switch’s up position as on and down position as off. For example, if you turn Micro module on from the latching switch and off from another controller, the switch is still in the up (on) position; turning Micro module back on from the switch would require you to tap the switch down, then up again.
The 3-way toggle mode overrides this sense feature, so in that same scenario—turning Micro module on at the switch and off from another controller, so switch is in up (on) position—you could then turn Micro module on at the switch by tapping it down."
Hmm. Since that's the case, these might be something I can use after all. Having "normal" switches certainly increases the WAF. |
| absolootbs |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 09:15:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SetMonkey13
This this mean that a switch could read off by the light is actually on?
this is true, although i don't see that it should be an issue as it's no different than what occurs in any conventional 3-way/4-way switch setup: one (or more) switches will be in the correct state while one (or more) switches will be in the incorrect state. and thanks to the micro module's "3-way toggle mode", you can change the state of the light by toggling the switch to its other state, regardless of it's initial state, just like with a conventional multi-way setup.
from the micro module owners manual:
"Because Micro module comes programmed for latching switches, 3-way toggle mode is enabled by default. Normally, a latching switch reads the switch’s up position as on and down position as off. For example, if you turn Micro module on from the latching switch and off from another controller, the switch is still in the up (on) position; turning Micro module back on from the switch would require you to tap the switch down, then up again.
The 3-way toggle mode overrides this sense feature, so in that same scenario—turning Micro module on at the switch and off from another controller, so switch is in up (on) position—you could then turn Micro module on at the switch by tapping it down." |
| BLH |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 05:03:26 AM
The 2442-222 Micro Module Dimmer and 2443-222 Micro Module On Off are now in stock. The 2444-222 Motor Control Module is showing 01/30/2013 expected stock date.
None of the Insteon Modules Require a Ground connection. It is for safety only and in my old home with no grounds at all in the electrical boxes. They work fine. With the ground wire connected to nothing.
|
| yardbird |
Posted - 01/09/2013 : 04:54:36 AM
These might be a solution for me in an area of the kitchen. I have 3 can lights in the ceiling and a pendant type fixture all on the same switch. The fixture hangs over the sink. When we got all done my wife said she'd really like to be able to control the cans and the fixture separately. No way to accomplish this without opening walls and ceiling again.
The ceiling cans are standard Halo IC cans. I removed the factory light bulb socket bracket and installed the EcoSmart LED fixtures into the cans. (WONDERFUL retrofit!). I could replace the switchlinc relay that now controls the circuit with a keypadlinc. That would be my "master on/off". Then drop the LED inserts out of the cans and wire one of these micro modules into each light by just cutting the pigtail going to the bulb socket and using the method for "no switch" which appears to simply not use the sense wires.
The neat thing about the micromodules is that it looks like they're small enough to stuff up into the cans on top of the LED inserts. AND they don't use a ground. So it's just the "black and white" wires. |
| carealtor |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 8:33:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SetMonkey13
Does this mean they work with a normal switch and change the state of a light when the switch is turned on and off. This this mean that a switch could read off by the light is actually on?
Yes. Take a look at the posts about 8 posts above. |
| jdale |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 7:18:22 PM
These make me want to replace my motion sensor lights. After all the work trying to fit the wires in the box, I never wanted to touch it again. But the Micro Module should make it easy. Also I want to get a dual-band device in that location. Now just have to find a good fixture (flood lights plus motion sensor) that's compatible.
|
| SetMonkey13 |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 6:06:32 PM
Does this mean they work with a normal switch and change the state of a light when the switch is turned on and off. This this mean that a switch could read off by the light is actually on? |
| Commander Balok |
Posted - 01/08/2013 : 6:03:04 PM
Dimmer and on/off are now for sale (open/close is a pre-order). It appears I was wrong, you can use them with an "ordinary" (i.e. not momentary) switch, according to the diagrams at the order page. |
| carealtor |
Posted - 11/23/2012 : 4:00:26 PM
I think you are exactly right. I did some research too and came to the same conclusions that you did. ~$70 to get rid of the LEDs on the side of the switch seems a little steep, but you know your interior decorator is always right. 
What I still find interesting is that the sense inputs are line voltage. It seems to me it would be much more practical if they were simply contact closure. Then you could use low voltage wiring and switches. |
| Commander Balok |
Posted - 11/23/2012 : 2:24:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carealtor
But I fail to understand how this would work behind an existing switch. Won't the existing switch get out of sync, if say, the existing switch turns the micro module on and then a remote command turns the micro module off?
I don't believe they're meant for use with a "standard" switch, but with a "momentary" SPDT switch, like this one:
http://www.smarthome.com/86524WH/Leviton-5657-2W-Decora-Plus-Rocker-Double-Throw-Wall-Switch-White/p.aspx
Push the top of the switch, it momentarily closes; if you've wired the correct sense line to that contact, the mini-module detects an "on" request. Push the bottom and the module detects an "off" request. The switch doesn't really have a state because when you release it, it returns to the center off position. The state is maintained by the mini-module and changes to reflect either remote commands or local commands from a switch like this.
My research has concluded that these switches are used for certain lighting systems where the momentary switch press commands a solenoid or other switch device to deliver (or remove) power. Such lighting systems would already have this sort of switch installed, and so the mini-module would be a good choice. They are also used to command such things as screens, curtains and windows.
But these switches cost ~$30 based on a few sites. But ~$30 for the switch and ~$40? for the mini-module adds to ~$70, making the SwitchLinc a fiscally better choice unless you already have momentary switch for your lighting system or application.
I'd guess the mini-modules would also work behind an outlet; there'd be no local control so you'd just cap the sense wires.
They handle a lot less power than SwitchLincs, based on the docs, which means you'd have to be careful if they were connected to an outlet, or a switch that controlled an outlet. Chances are, though, that they also generate a lot less heat. I didn't see anything in the docs released to the FCC about a need to derate them if they share a box with other mini-modules or 'Lincs.
Anyone who sees an error in what I've written, please correct me. A lot of this is based on speculation and quick internet research. |
| Alpha_Assault |
Posted - 11/23/2012 : 07:41:56 AM
Derating (or de-rating or de-tuning) is the operation of a machine at less than its rated maximum power in order to prolong its life. The term is commonly applied to electrical and electronic devices and to internal combustion engines.
That means that yes it applies to everything. |
