| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 09:54:05 AM
My small x10 system has just completly failed. I doubt it is modules or controllers going out but I am working on a fix since it is everything so it is either a new noise source or my kid missing with the switches. I have a couple questions.
Oh, by the way, New member here. Thanks in advance.
For the older type wall switches, does the bottom slide switch shut down the entire module (disconnect the push botton too?) or just the remote control on/off capability?
Thanks. |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| 12many |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 09:23:40 AM
Ok so last night I pluged the module and contoller into an extension cord and tested it in outlet that works (it worked) and outlets that do not work, (did not work). Same results as before.
I used a battery backup from my computer and plugged it into the battery supplied outlet.
Battery back up NOT plugged in to outlet that does not work - Tried controller and it works fine. Running only off battery power.
Next, I plug the battery back up into outlet that usually does not work and the module/controller plugged into battery back up and it stopped working. So that outlet is introducing or doing something even to the battery back up to make the controller not work.
Controller/module worked when plugged into my brickwall filter/surge device which filters about 30db at 120kHz and the module/controller worked.
I think it is a heavy noise source. And it seems like it may be from outside the house since when I shut the house down by flipping breakers, it was still present. |
| 12many |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 3:39:12 PM
Ok, I have an idea.
I can test the modules with the output from a battery back up and through a filter such as my brickwall surger protector and filter, or I can by an x10 filter. If it works after filtering, then it is noise. Does not tell me exactly how to fix it but may narrow it down to noise that is filterable.
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| 12many |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 09:30:00 AM
Here is what I tried.
I tested the controller and module in the outlet it does work in and it worked fine. All the other outlets and the lights do not work still. Pool lights still not working. So now I start the testing.
I have two breaker boxes, one in Garage inside and one outside. Then I went to garage breakers and shut them all off. Then I want to outside breaker and shutt all of them off except the 30 amp service to the pool box. So everything is off except the pool box. I plugged the controller and module into GFI outlet at pool box and still did not work. Ok, so maybe that pool box is creating the noise.
So next I shut off the breaker at main panel to pool box. Now entire house is off. I turn on kitchen only breakers on garage breaker box and get power to kitchen outlets. Nothing else on. I try module and controller in same outlets in 3 different outlet and it does not work. I have power at outlets but module does not work.
Uggg. Foiled again. I tried two different circuits with everything else in the house off at both breaker boxes.
This make me think it is something in the meter (smart meter) or coming in from the power line. Do you agree?
Since everything in the house was off and I tried two different circuits, seems like nothing in the house could be generating the noise. The smart meter is suppose to only transmit 48 times per day using rf frequency but I am sure it has a power supply inside. My dad has same smartmeter at house 2 miles away and it does not affect x10 at his house.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for everyone's help. Maybe my house is haunted. System worked great for probably 8 months and then just stopped working.
Not sure what to do next.
Chad
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| 12many |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 2:26:59 PM
Ok. Tonight I will shut ALL the breakers off except for the one circuit and see what happens.
Thanks.
Chad
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| stusviews |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 12:04:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 12many
1. Will LED bulbs that are in the socket but NOT ON affect the system? One side of bulb is still connected.
Anything controlled by an electronic switch (e.g., X10) can be "live."
quote:
2. Can garage door openers affect system? I could unplug but don'nt want to lose codes.
You will not lose any codes by unplugging them.
quote:
3. Any cheap testers to see what noise is on the line avaliable?
Do exactly what dave w suggested, one-by-one. |
| 12many |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 11:31:45 AM
Back Again. I have done more work to find the problem.
Status: System still not working.
I have been using an appliance module and manual controller to test my system (in addition to two pool lights) and I can only get it to work in a couple outlets in my house (basically 1 circuit seems to not have the noise issue).
I took them (module and controller) to my parent's house and it worked there in all outlets and across the house. So, the units are good. It is my house.
I believe I have a major noise source since units will not work at my house in 90% of outlets even when plugged into same outlet or when plugged into single surge suppressor.
I unplugged everything in house and shut off all my ac units and it would still not work. I had the entire house unplugged except a few incandecent bulbs. It takes awhile to unplug/replug an entire house and reprogram all clocks!! Even unplugged alarm, door bell,
I tried shutting down most of the breakers and still did not work. Maybe I will power down A/C units at breakers next?
I have a couple more questions.
1. Will LED bulbs that are in the socket but NOT ON affect the system? One side of bulb is still connected.
2. Can garage door openers affect system? I could unplug but don'nt want to lose codes.
3. Any cheap testers to see what noise is on the line avaliable?
I am going to try to test system at neighbor's house next.
Thanks. Any other ideas? |
| dave w |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 09:13:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 12many
Do you recommend shutting off breakers to isolate certain circuits?
Sure. Try cutting off all breakers except the breaker for the X10 source command and the breaker for the X10 target and see if target responds. If so your detective work becomes easier. Reset the breakers one by one until you lose X10 again and then troubleshoot that circuit. |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 4:38:52 PM
Ok. I will order another switch and see if I can swap it out.
I wish I could figure out what is causing it. Just seems like there is something obvious I am missing. I even tried it at different times of the night.
Do you recommend shutting off breakers to isolate certain circuits?
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| stusviews |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 2:07:31 PM
You can bench test the switch or even try it in another location, not on that circuit. |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/26/2012 : 09:56:43 AM
Well, I am stumped.
I unplugged or turned off most of my house including the low voltage lights trsformers, sprinkler clocks, cordless phones, my computer, printer, power strip in garage, battery charger, re-circulate pump, ceiling fans, night lights, toothbrushes, pool, WIFI, drill charger, radio, and ac units.
Still did not work. I also cut power to the modules (using breaker) to maybe reset them (if such a thing exists) and it did not work. I confirmed that the slide switch on the bottom cuts power to both the switch and the x10 signals. I tried different codes on controller and switch modules and that did not work. Even plugging controller into outlet at pool box does not work. I think I have something on that circuit or branch that is sucking or corrupting my signal. I am an EE by degree so I understand the technology, but can not fix this.
I am really at a loss of what it could be. I could try a new switch and see if a surge or something blew both switches, which I think unlikely. Or I could wait and see if the problems goes away.
We have not added anything or moved anything and if we did, it would have been unplugged. Maybe the neighbor did something. Our houses are on a 1/3 acre lots so not too close, but not too far either.
If anyone has any ideas that would be great. I am at a loss.
What is next, trying a new switch maybe as a test?
Also, would Insteon be better? I don't see any dual-band switches with the small switch size and I would want to use the dual band.
Thanks.
Chad |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 2:36:01 PM
Yes I agree. There is something else going on other than module failure.
We will know alot more after tonight. |
| Geo |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 2:21:19 PM
It looks very much too me as if some new appliance was added or an old one moved and plugged to a different outlet. If all your modules went dead within such a short period of time one could only say gee whiz, what a coincidence... |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 2:07:22 PM
Thank you.
I will try that tonight. I will unplug the txformer and shut off some ceiling fans that the wife has been running and go room to room looking for anything new that we have pluged in or started using. I can not think of anything offhand other than the transformer.
I will also check the slide switches on the pool switches.
I will report back tomorrow.
Chad |
| BLH |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:44:36 PM
I would second Stu's try again with the transformer disconnected.
If it is an electronic type power supply. It could cause noise problems or absorb X10 signals.
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| stusviews |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 12:31:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 12many
I have tried unplugging both controllers and trying one at a time but that does not work. I figure it is interference but not much has changed other than one low voltage landscape transformer being plugged in.
Some low voltage transformers can cause X10 difficulties. Did you try to disconnect or filter it? |
| 12many |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 10:20:08 AM
Thanks for the fast reply. It was very helpful.
I am really stumped now. Hmmm.
I had a x10 system with 2 old style switch that control pool lights and 1 plug in appliance module that controlled re-circulate pump. I have 2 controllers. A couple weeks ago, everything worked great all the time. No problems at all.
But the, First, the pump module started to require multiple pushes of the button to work and then more pushes so I figured it was a module going bad. Stopped working all together this weekend. Now neither of my pool switches work and before they were both working perfect with one button push only to work.
Now, neither controller will control either pool switch even when plugged into a outlet that is in the pool controller box. Pool pumps are not running. Will not control lights from inside house either. Manual push buttons on pool switches do work and turn likghts on/off.
I doubt both switches failed and both controllers failed so there must be something else going on. One controller is timer and other just manual push buttons.
Very odd.
I have tried unplugging both controllers and trying one at a time but that does not work. I figure it is interference but not much has changed other than one low voltage landscape transformer being plugged in.
Any ideas? |
| BLH |
Posted - 06/25/2012 : 09:56:38 AM
Since the Wall Switches steal power through the load.
The slide switch on the bottom breaks the power into the switch. For safety while changing the bulb.
So yes the slide switch kills the whole switch.
Depending on the age of them. Newer ones had soft start where they ramp On and Off and also have preset dim. Could be possible to set the On level to a real low setting.
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